Regional Beekeepers - Fall 2024 (303)

303 - Regional Beekeepers - Fall 2024

Bill: Hello. This is Bill from Naples, Florida, where we work bees nearly year-round. Welcome to the Beekeeping Today Podcast.

Jeff: Welcome to Beekeeping Today Podcast presented by Betterbee, your source for beekeeping news, information, and entertainment. I'm Jeff Ott.

Becky: I'm Becky Masterman.

Global Patties: Today's episode is brought to you by the bee nutrition superheroes at Global Patties. Family-operated and buzzing with passion, Global Patties crafts protein-packed patties that'll turn your hives into powerhouse production. Picture this, strong colonies, booming brood, and honey flowing like a sweet river. Give super protein for your bees and they'll love it. Check out their buffet of patties, tailor-made for your bees in your specific area. Head over to www.globalpatties.com and give your bees the nutrition they deserve.

Jeff: Hey. A quick shout out to Betterbee and all of our sponsors whose support allows us to bring you this podcast each week without resorting to a fee-based subscription. We don't want that and we know you don't either. Be sure to check out all of our content on the website. There, you can read up on all of our guests, read our blog on the various aspects and observations about beekeeping, search for, download and listen to over 300 past episodes, read episodes transcripts, leave comments and feedback on each episode, and check on podcast specials from our sponsors. You can find it all at www.beekeepingtoday.com. Hey. Thanks a lot, Bill from Naples, Florida. Becky, Florida is now highlighted on our map.

Becky: I am so excited that we have Florida now on board. Fantastic. What a great opener.

Jeff: Florida's nice, especially here in November. Great weather.

Becky: It's on a lot of people's minds right now, I think. He's keeping bees year-round. I wonder if that means he lets us visit year-round and check out his bees.

Jeff: That'd be great. In college, I didn't go down to Florida during the springtime. My roommate had a sister in Gainesville and we'd go down and visit at Thanksgiving. November is a great time in Florida. It was beautiful weather. I enjoyed it.

Becky: Absolutely.

Jeff: Especially from Virginia that was cold. Thank you, Bill. Bill, if I ever decide to quit podcasting with a voice like yours, I'm sure Becky would like working with you. That was a great opening. Thanks a lot.

Becky: Hey. Is there something I should know?

Jeff: No, I didn't want to give anybody hopes there. I don't want to start rumors. Bill had a nice voice. Becky, I'm looking forward to the show today. The regional beekeepers, we've been doing it for a while. It's become a seasonal tradition with the podcast to talk to beekeepers around the country, their observations at a point in time.

Becky: Very excited. It's great to have perspective in beekeeping, geographical, and also how people manage their bees. I'm really looking forward to this hour.

Jeff: They say all beekeeping is local. It is fun to have the beekeepers all in one place talking about their local problems and how they're this similar and how they're different.

Becky: Some very different and some, it's the same old problem. It is really interesting. I am so glad that we got everybody back from the spring episode this year. That's pretty cool.

Jeff: We're really fortunate. Let's talk to them in just a few moments after these few quick words from our sponsors.

[music]

Betterbee: Winter is coming. Prepare your bees for the cold months with Betterbees insulating hive wraps, outer covers, mouse guards, hive straps, and more. Visit betterbee.com/winterprep for tips and tricks to help your hive withstand the harsh weather.

[music]

Strong Microbials: At Strong Microbials, we've upgraded Bee Feed with BeeBites, powered by ancient superfoods like spirulina and chlorella algae. Research by USDA scientist, Dr. Ricigliano, shows these microalgae are potent prebiotics, fueling the honeybee microbiome, boosting immune function, and delivering essential nutrients. We've also combined prebiotic algae with probiotic bacillus bacteria to create BeeBites fondant designed to help your bees thrive. Learn more about the power of algae and microbes for bees at strongmicrobials.com. A strong gut needs strong microbials.

Jeff: Hey, everybody. Welcome back. Now, we've had to really expand the table. We had to put those leaves in the table this time because our table stretches from coast to coast. Sitting around this great big expanded Beekeeping Today Podcast table are our representatives this year of the regional beekeepers. I'm just going to go non-alphabetically. Across the top of my screen, we have Duane Combs, Paul Longwell, Jay Williams, Ang Roell, and Bonnie Morse. Welcome everybody to the show. I have a hard time just introducing one guest, but with five guests, I'm really challenged.

Becky: Welcome back, everybody. It's so nice to see you. It was such a fun time to have you in the spring. I can't wait to hear what you're going to tell us today.

Jeff: Did I forget to unmute y'all? You can say hello.

Becky: I think that last time, Jeff, we said there are so many beekeepers around this big table that we want to make sure that we get everything in. They might be afraid of how we operated it last time and they don't want to get in trouble. You're going to have to point to [crosstalk]

Jay Williams: You trained us.

Ang Roell: There are a lot of rules.

Jeff: Trained you two well.

Becky: There were a lot of rules. I love it, Ang.

Jeff: There were lot of rules.

Becky: No rules this time. We just invited you back.

Ang: No rules. Wow. Okay.

Jeff: No rules.

Jeff: I got my finger on the bleep button right now.

Becky: We really were intimidated the last time with so many beekeepers. We wanted to make sure that you were all heard. Now, we don't care as much. Kidding. Let's do some introductions, Jeff. Get it rolling.

Jeff: I'm going to go across the screen. Not east, west, west, east. We're just going to go across the screen. Duane, introduce yourself, who you are, where you are.

Duane Combs: Duane Combs, Arizona Beekeepers, LLC. I sell 200 nucs a year and run anywhere from 300 hives to 30 hives, based on the weather.

Jeff: We'll be coming back to that weather here soon. Across the top, Paul.

Paul Longwell: Hi. Glad to be here. I'm in Olympia. My name's Paul Longwell. I live in Olympia, Washington. I'm a small-time beekeeper with 17 years of experience and currently have just 11 hives.

Jeff: Thanks, Paul. Then Jay.

Jay Williams: Hey. Jay Williams. I run Williams Honey Farm. I also work at a farm-based resort called Southall Farms, where I'm the pollination program manager. I run, depending on the time of year, around 250 colonies. I've been doing this for 17 years. I'm more in the agritourism world than the honey production world. I speak from a different side of the fence than most beekeepers.

Jeff: It's an interesting operation you run there. Ang?

Ang Roell: Hey, y'all. I'm Ang. I run a business called They Keep Bees. We're based in the western part of Massachusetts, just under Vermont. We have a satellite operation right now in Florida, but we're currently moving it to the western part of North Carolina. I run about 200 hives in the two locations. I primarily focus on queen production, producing about 1000 queens a year.

Jeff: Bonnie?

Bonnie Morse: Hi, everyone. I'm Bonnie Morse. I own Bonnie Bee & Company. Been keeping bees about 18 years. We've actually downsized. We're down ourselves to under 50, but our primary business is consulting and helping hobbyist beekeepers.

Becky: Did you say California?

Bonnie: Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, I'm from San Rafael, California.

Jeff: Very good. Welcome everybody to the show. Going into this season, everyone had high expectations and looking forward to the season. That's the way of agriculture. Then reality shows up. Let's talk about the season that was. I'll open it up. Who wants to go first?

Duane: I can go first. What the heck? We had reasonable rains in the spring. Everything in Arizona is about rain and temperature. Had reasonable spring rains. Got a different crop this year at a new location, creosote bush. When you cut it, it smells like creosote. I made a mixture of creosote honey and alfalfa honey, because I tend to try to put my bees out in the desert, but within a mile or two of alfalfa fields because we have a lot of alfalfa fields here.

That was pretty good. My biggest problem this year has been heat. In 2023, we had 31 days where the temperature in a row was above 1 to 10 or above. That was a new record. It was 18 in 1974, and in 2024, we broke that record. We had 33 days in a row where the temperature high was 110 or above. In August, the average internal temperature of my hives was 97.7, the minimum temperature was 74.5, and the maximum temperature was 129.2 degrees. The problem is that worker bees can survive 122 degrees for a short period of time but brood can't really survive above, I think it's 107 degrees and really needs to be maintained at 90 to 95 degrees.

It also affects negatively your queen bees, both in their ability to lay eggs and their ability to survive. I lost 15% of my hives this year. We tried a new strategy. We were using double hives with three frames removed in each box to insert two inches of foam. Then we had two inches of foam as an inner cover with migratory tops and then we covered that whole thing with Everbilt, which is like foam only it has reflection coating on both sides, and we still lost over 10% of our hives.

What I'm looking at right now when I'm researching, I'm writing a serious grant. I want to get out of this summer bee business and I want to take care of other people's bees in winter and produce newts off of their bees. The reason that this works is our November highs normally are 75, our averages are 66, our lows are never above 63. We have equally nice weather in December, January, and then February, March, April are great. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Jeff: We'll come back to the temperature because that sounds like definitely a challenge.

Becky: At a certain point I think that becomes a mite control, I think when you raise the temperature the data support that.

Duane: We don't have summer mites because--

Becky: Because they can't survive.

Duane: They die before the bees.

Becky: If nobody survives, that's a problem. Paul, you have some weather woes. How did the season go in Washington?

Paul: The season started extremely slow. It was a rainy season, which was extremely long. I did something different this year. I decided to change out a lot of my old, old comb. The bees I started with were packages this year. The build-out was extremely long and slow because I really made them work to rebuild new comb. The season was so slow that everybody around me was saying, "My bees are dead, my bees are dead" I kept telling them, "You got to feed. You got to feed. There's nothing out for them yet." Our average season we have, typically in May is our swarm season. Our blackberries didn't even come out until the last June or July. The swarm season was actually in July this year. It's been a weird season for us.

Jeff: Jay, you're next.

Jay: Jeff basically set me up here because you said at the beginning of the springtime, everything's perfect. Everything is exactly how we want it to be, and you're right, because I'm going to start out by saying, there I was. Everything was lining up. The Queens were coming on board, the mating zones were in. I was firing on all cylinders. We had a decently wet spring. The black locust, even though it was early to the party and it was not fashion-related in any way, it was probably two weeks early, we still just nailed it. We got it and literally it was like, "This is my year. I'm going to be the man. I'm going to just break every single record."

Cut to reality in Tennessee PS. I'd say about June first or so, everything just stopped. It just said, "No, we've had it. We've given you all we're going to give you. Good luck, kid." As a result, we got a great black locust. We got a pretty decent Tulip Popular, blackberry was okay, clover was whatever clover is. It doesn't really know where it's going. Basswood basically was like, "No, not this year." The catalpa as well did not fire very well either.

At least in my area, if you go hard and go well in the beginning you'll get a decent crop and we did. We still broke last year's record, but it could have been just perfect. We didn't quite get to our final goal but the honey that we got has a very buttery note, a decent persistence. The locusts came through really well, but it doesn't have the spice at the end of our normal kick, at least in this area. My Queens did okay, but it ended with a very dry-- Right now, at least the time of this taping, we're still considered in a severe drought in the Southeast.

In my area the mites are very, very high. There's not a ton of nectar coming in, so we are supplemental feeding. It's like you get a lot, and then also you get a lot of challenges at the same time. It's your typical year in beekeeping that started out typical year and then reality kicks in. We know we learned a lot and we still had a really good time. I'd say this is one for the books for sure.

Jeff: Ang your turn.

Ang: I'm trying to remember what even happened in the same time.

[chuckles]

I'm like, "What happened?" We start our spraying really early in February, and we do several rounds of Queens in central Florida on the East Coast. Down there, the winter was really wet. There was a lot of nectar and a lot of honey we harvested. Oh, golly, I can't even remember. It was like 450 pounds of honey, but it was just from nucs. It wasn't from full-sized hives because we just run product like queen production colonies down there. It was so heavy and so sticky and so messy.

It dried out after that down south and that was my experience also in Western North Carolina. We actually had to move some bees around, shuffle some bees around because of that dryness. Then in the northeast, where our season starts in May, we tend to have wet springs. When the nice days come, the bees really put on pounds very quickly. We had a good spring flow through raspberries and blackberries. I don't think we got very much basswood and linden this year.

We don't get nectar from our Catalpha trees. I think maybe a little pollen. We had good sumac and something that is changing in the northeast that I'm noticing is we have over for longer, meaning it blushes several times now because we're getting more rains more consistently. There seem to be increases in some flowers, decreases in others. Last year was an insane black locust year here. I've never seen anything like it. This year was not bad. I guess I just expect that because trees have mast years and less productive years.

We get a fall flow in late August or early September through right around now. I thought for a moment that was going to be a bust, but then it ended up doubling down and going harder than I ever would have imagined. I was just like, "Oh, okay." Now it's been quite dry. Today is the first day that it's rained in a month. That's actually led to good nectar production for us because the bees have a lot of time to forage on those plants that at this time if it's cold, they just can't collect quite as much.

Yes, I guess ups and downs. The cream production was really great this year. We're rolling out a couple of trials about climate resilience. There was more bee expansion than I anticipated and less honey than I anticipated in the northeast but that was what needed to happen so we could grow our operation for this trial that we're doing.

Jeff: All right. Bonnie.

Bonnie: It was an interesting year. It started a little slow in spring. Swarming was a couple of weeks behind schedule and maybe that buildup impacted the spring honey flow because we probably had-- Our season really is February to May, and most of the honey comes in the late March, April, May period and it was about 50% down this year overall.

That was a little bit of a bust. Although overall, it's been a good season. The bees have seemed really healthy, not seeing a lot of diseases. Fortunately, the yellow jackets are hardly an issue for us and usually, they're just brutal at this time of year. That's all been really good. Temperature-wise, we've been really lucky. Boy, Duane, I feel sorry listening to you. We're close to the Coast and inland California. My brother lives near Sacramento and 110 constantly. It was just crazy. We were averaging 70s to low 90s. I would complain when we get a 90-degree day. I think we were pretty lucky.

We're filming this or recording this in late September. We're in the middle of a coyote bush flow right now. Our coyote bush really important fall nectar plant. We haven't had a flow in two years. Last year, I think it was a little too cool and it wasn't flowing. The year before, it was about to break bud, and then we had a massive heatwave and it just fried everything. This is the first time that it looks like we're going to get one. They're recovering and putting weight back on, and the colonies are looking beautiful. I have my hands in about 350 hives around this county and the counties north of us regularly.

I'm seeing just big, beautiful, healthy colonies right now, which is really exciting. They're putting on this fall wait. The one challenge for us this year though, was small high beetles, which they arrived here about twelve years ago, didn't really think they really haven't caused a problem for us during that time. We have a Mediterranean climate. It's very dry during the summer. We have hard clay soils. They're around, but not really bad.

In twelve years, I've We've only seen four "slime outs", and two of those were in the same apiary. In July and August this year alone, I saw six. Half of those came from colonies that appeared healthy, and then five weeks later were totally destroyed. The population, for whatever reason, has really been going up. Overall, like I said, it's been, other than the low honey in the spring, it's been a decent year for us here.

Jeff: Let's take this opportunity, before we get into deeper questions, for a quick word from our sponsors, and we'll be right back.

Bee Smart Designs: Introducing the Bee Smart Universal Hive System. Whether you're a beginner or an experienced beekeeper, our innovative, American-made products help you maintain healthier hives with lower losses and increased honey yields. Made from recycled materials with more insulation, our system includes insulated tops and inner covers, pest management bottom boards, plus feeders, and a full line of cool tools. Bee Smart products come ready to use with 8 or 10-frame equipment. No painting needed. Visit beesmartdesigns.com to learn more and to find a dealer near you. Bee Smart Designs, simply better beekeeping products.

Hive Alive: HiveAlive has just launched EZ Feed Super Syrup. Their unique formula, made from seaweed, thyme, and lemongrass, helps keep bees healthy, boost populations, and increase honey production. Now, with EZ Feed Super Syrup, feeding bees is simple. Just place the ready-to-use pouch on your hives for quick mess-free feeding. Visit your local beekeeping store, or usa.hivealivebees.com, for more info. Use code BTP for a special discount.

Becky: Welcome back, everybody. Let's get into mites. Now, remember, this is not a three-hour podcast, Jay. Remember, we don't want to dwell on the bad too, too much. If you want to give us an overview of your mite management and how well it fared this year, we would love to hear it. Who wants to start off?

Duane: Shoot, I had a great year for mites. All you have to do is raise the temperature up to 117 degrees, and it kills those little suckers.

[laughter]

If I hit my mites-- I tell people to check their mites every month. Obviously, in June, July, and August, I've stopped personally doing that. If I'll test them heavily, test every hive in October, and then treat typically with Apiguard thymol, then I'll only have 10% of my hives that I use oxalic dribble on over the course of the rest of the year.

Becky: That's one way to manage them, Duane.

[laughter]

Duane: Yes.

Becky: Start in Arizona.

Duane: You got to look for the blessings. Hey, now wait a minute, Becky. I'd rather have my bees and deal with 110 than be where you're at and deal with six months of zero-degree weather.

Becky: They love it. It's not six months of zero-degree weather. Those girls just cuddle up-

Jay: It's eight months.

Becky: -and they could-- Oh, come on, Jay. [crosstalk] It does not feel like it. Anyway, we could spend the rest of the hour defending Minnesota in our winters.

Jeff: No, we can't.

Becky: Jeff says no. Paul, let's talk some mites.

Paul: I started to control my mites probably in April. Started to monitor them so I could keep my bell curve down. Then I went to from Formic Pro in the summer. Went through the stuff, did I kill my queen? Did I not? Find out, yes, the queens are okay. I just put them on the new VarroxSan treatment for this time. That's when I got on to my highs now. It seems to be under control so far.

Becky: The VarroxSan is the oxalic acid in the strips. I'm just going to quickly ask, Paul, how did you like applying it?

Paul: It was easy to apply. The only problem I had with the package as it comes in 60, which is a lot more than I'll ever use. Then they say, "Use it all immediately or get rid of it." There's no way to seal it back up. I bought a vacuum packer, so I sealed it back up. We'll see how it works.

Jeff: You could always remember your friends who are beekeepers too. I'm just saying.

Paul: I think I have one a couple of miles away.

Becky: Jay, go ahead and share your mite season with us.

Jay: All right. Get your violin out. I want a lot of sympathy out of you. We, the team, not just me, but the team here monitors every single month. I'm a big fan of monitoring for mites every single month. We, in general, use Formic in the springtime. Apiguard is typically what we use after we pull the honey off. This year, Apiguard did not work well for us or that I'm aware of most people in this area, in the Nashville area. I'm not quite sure why that is. It could be because of the heat, because the bearding this year was quite excessive. There's a lot of bearding going on.

More bees were outside the hive than were inside the hive. That's my basic guesstimate. We didn't have a good mite kill. We've had to pivot a little bit since then. Because of the heat, I wasn't really interested in using Formic. We actually did some oxalic acid instead. Then now, just like I feel like every other beekeeper right now, we're all testing the VarroxSan out, and I hope it works. My hesitation with the VarroxSan is that, or VarroxSan, however you say it, is that it seems like a low-level application, so it's great.

I would rather control my mites first and then maintain them at a low level. I'm concerned that your average beekeeper out there doesn't understand that and is going to put them in there and say, "I'm good to go." I think we could be in danger. It's nothing against the product in any way. It's more of an education that we just need to make sure that most people understand treatment levels and dosages and following the labels and following the rules to the T.

That's where we're at right now. We've done that VarroxSan in every single colony that we have. We also had a challenge where we run all mediums in every yard that I have. VarroxSan is designed for deeps. As a result, you have to get your frames lined up perfectly. Also, there's a lot of conflicting information on application rates for mediums, and per frame of brewed, it was a challenge. I'd guess I'm running an experiment to see what's the correct dosage. It helps that we have a team of people that are monitoring for mites constantly. We can really track down whether it's doing its job or not.

Jeff: When you said you did the oxalic acid, were you doing Dribble or were you using OAV?

Jay: I was vaporizing, which I have never done before in the middle of summer. We just did every week for three weeks.

Duane: Can I make a comment about Apiguard? When I was buying the little 50-gram canisters, they tell you to use the whole canister. Then when I got to the size where I bought the big buckets, they tell you that if it's 85 degrees or higher to use only 25, only use half of that. That was something that made a big difference in my use of Apiguard, that they don't tell the average beekeeper.

Jay: Did you do it twice, Duane? Did Do you do two 25s, or did you do one?

Duane: No, I did one. Typically, I only do it once.

Jay: Okay.

Becky: Ang, do you want to share your mite drama or hopefully no drama?

Ang: I hope I don't sound like the jerk when I say I didn't have too much drama. I do want to comment on what Jay was saying about the oxalic. What is the terminology for the branded one? Is it VarroxSan? You were saying it right?

Jay: VarroxSan or VarroxSan. I'm not sure exactly, honestly, how to pronounce it.

Becky: I've heard VarroxSan.

Jay: It's called V-rox.

Ang: VarroxSan. V-rox is a terrible name.

[laughter]

Ang: Don't put that in the recording. We've been using that. We've been using VarroxSan that we are using in both nucs nd 10-frame equipment. Also a little bit of experimentation with the application rate has been going on for us. One thing that I also agree I have concern about is people just applying those and thinking-- It's not an infestation treatment. It's an intervention treatment. We actually use it after we raise our first round of Queens, and then the bees are broodless for a period of time, and we put that on.

That actually goes a pretty long way in knocking our mites back because they have a period of broodlessness. A lot of the mites are phoretic. With a brood break, it's been a good intervention for us, and we've seen good results. If I think about somebody putting that on after extract their honey, like in July, and expecting that to be the only treatment they need all year, I'm really concerned about it. I agree with Jay that in the case of trying to produce honey, I would recommend using the Formic in the early spring if you do have high mite loads.

We also do a lot of selection for VarroxSan sensitive hygienic. We monitor monthly for mites. We also do a brood assays in the fall and score them according to the Harbo Brood Assay. That's for us a way that we are tracking our queens and trying to intervene in mite infestation from a genetic standpoint. Between the oxalic and our genetic selection and using Formic here and there, we feel pretty well managed.

That said, again, I'm doing a lot of queen production and not as much honey production. I'm not running double deep colonies with five supers on top of them all season. I'm making bees from bees more often. It allows me to have these manual manipulation interventions as well as the organic acids and manage my mites differently than somebody who's trying to produce 30,000 gallons of honey a year. It's just a different practice, but I have concern about how the average backyard behavior is going to be using VarroxSan as a treatment that's supposed to really just be an intervention and not an infestation treatment as I see it right now.

Becky: Bonnie, any mitemares to share with us?

Jeff: Oh, mitemares. I like that.

Bonnie: Mitemares.

Jeff: I like that.

Becky: Very rantsy, so got to to credit them.

Bonnie: Yes, knock on wood, this year has not been a mitemare. It's actually been a pretty good year for us. Like Ang said, we think our first line of defense is in the selection of the bees. We do see a lot of hygienic behavior with the bees. As I said earlier, we're seeing diseases, not a lot of diseases. Even when I'm seeing the uncapped pupa, it's not discolored, like there's some viral issue going on, it's clean.

In the spring, I was trying to use a little bit more Hopguard, which I actually am quite fond of in the spring. Like Jay was saying though, I guess about the VarroxSan, it's made for deeps and we run mostly mediums ourself. The placement of them can be a little challenging to get them in there.

Definitely during the summer, I did mention, we can have lower temperatures but they do fluctuate and bounce up. Especially in different parts of the county, we can have a 30 degree difference in a 15 mile area between us. San Francisco is 15 miles south of us and you can cross the Golden Gate bridge and it's 30 degrees lower than it is where we are. A lot of different temperatures. Formic is not always an option, but definitely in the fall, I think that formic are mostly our go-to.

I was interested in what you said about the VarroxSan coming in a 60 pack, that might not even be available to most California beekeepers then unless you're a commercial operation. California is not a friendly state for hobbyists right now. The apiary board is not being very friendly and the Department of Pesticide regulation just came out earlier this year and because technically and no one knows who passed this and why they did, it was decades ago, the California Department of Food and Agriculture define a hobbyist as having one to nine hives.

Now the Department of Pesticide Regulation has come out and said that unless you have an operator ID with your county and our reporting your pesticide use, you cannot get anything that has 10 or more treatments in it for mites. That could make that unavailable to California hobbyists, because most of them do not-- Even though it's free, who wants another layer of bureaucracy to deal with, having to file for that, to file reports every year. I think that a lot of hobbyists are going to start getting creative, I don't know.

Becky: I do wonder though, with that 60 pack, what is the maximum dose per colony? Isn't it pretty high, the number of strips you can put in?

Jay: I've been told up to six.

Becky: Up to six, so that is 10. I thought it was more than that. [crosstalk] ]

Paul: The label says four per box.

Becky: Four per box. That's potentially eight if you have a too deep, and then Bonnie, you would run underneath that 10.

Bonnie: Yes, maybe. We'll see how that works out.

Duane: I've got a question for everybody. Are you using screen bottom boards, and are you using green drone frames, because I also am playing with the VSH queens.

Bonnie: I don't use screen bottom boards. We have a lot of hills and a lot of wind. I just find it makes it harder for them in the winter. I don't really want to take the time with the drone frames. I'm interested in bees that can take care of their own problems. I like to see a hive that has a lot of drones and basically no mites. I'm a lazy beekeeper.

Ang: We let our bees raise their own drones. We don't put the green drone frames in. We don't do drone removal because that's the castration of a hive potentially. If you're a queen breeder, you don't want to be taking the drones out of the hives because you need them to make more queens. We don't use those and no, we don't use screen bottom boards. It's too cold here, and it's cold for a long time and even in the summer it's cold at night sometimes. It doesn't make sense for us. It might make sense for you given the heat where you are.

Duane: Yes, we have African bees and so we don't breed our own queens.

Becky: Ang, are you putting in foundation, or are you letting the bees draw their own?

Ang: A mix of that. In the brood nest, we put in foundation because we want to be able to graft from things. It's easier to graft off the black plastic foundation, out on the edges, we'll let them draw their own wax so they could determine what they need.

Jeff: I was just curious about the honey harvest average per hive.

Jay: Our adult colonies are averaging about 60 pounds or so, which is an average year for us, it was pretty straightforward, £60 for adult colony.

Duane: In a good year, we get 30 pounds and probably this year, I got 20 pounds per hive.

Bonnie: Like Duane, in a good year, maybe 30 pounds per hive. I would say up to this point in the year, it's probably 10 to 15. If we do get this good fall honey flow, it could bump it up.

Ang: I'd say between 30 and 50 per hive this year.

Jeff: Becky, I'll have to ask you because I know you're just chomping at the bit.

Becky: I don't have a good average. It goes anywhere from 0 to 200. I've had [crosstalk] killer of bees.

Jeff: That average is up to 100 pounds .

Becky: Not every colonies that produce. The average from Minnesota, it's under 50.

Jeff: No, I'm just giving a hard time. Paul--

Becky: I know you're trying, I'm not going to let you.

[laughter]

Jeff: Paul.

Paul: It's averaging this year about 30 to 40 per hive.

Jeff: All right. Good, good, good. Anybody have any questions they want to ask?

Jay: Duane, what does creosote bush honey taste like, because I picture a dirty smoker that I'm trying to clean with some isopropyl alcohol, and I'm fascinated to hear?

Jeff: Or a telephone pole?

Duane: We have people that love that honey. It's sweet with a very slight acidic aftertaste, and it's yellow in color. Now, what I produced was a mixture of that and alfalfa. Mine, you can't really taste the acidic aftertaste.

Jay: Interesting. On the same question, I'm curious what coyote bush tastes like, because I have other visions of what that might smell like or taste like, for Bonnie.

Bonnie: The taste isn't harsh , I haven't had it for so long, hard to characterize. The very distinguishing feature about coyote bush is the smell. You smell it on the hives, and it smells like a dirty locker room. I think that's why the taste is not that remarkable because the smell just really hits you. You crack a hive and you know they've been on coyote bush just by the smell, but that doesn't really carry over to the honey. It's really an interesting honey though it crystallizes, it'll crystallize within a week. You've got to get it off, extract it, get it on a jar.

Becky: Funny. Does the smell go away like goldenrod does once it's honey, or is it just a nectar that has the odor?

Bonny: It does.

Jeff: I like to smell the goldenrod in the hive.

Becky: It makes me happy.

Jay: Dirty socks.

Jeff: It smells like fall.

Duane: To deal with the crystallization, I've started bottling my honey and freezing it.

Becky: I've heard that.

Jeff: Any other questions?

Duane: I need to close with something positive about Arizona. Within 90 minutes from my house, I have a state land lease where I could move bees where the temperature would never get above 105 degrees, and it's right next to a flowing river.

Becky: It sounds like I could bring my honey there so that I could liquefy it. We could double.

Ang: Build a honey house right on that spot.

Duane: No, you just put it out on a table in your backyard in the sun.

Jeff: No need for a solar wax. [crosstalk]

Becky: It's not how we do it here. That's great.

Duane: It's rock solid when you put it out there, and by sundown it's flows like liquid water.

Bonnie: When it's that hot, are you basically working bees in the middle of the night then? You're not out in the middle of the day.

Duane: What we try to do is, we try to start at 5:00 PM, and finish my 9:00 AM. On a bad day it'll still be 100 degrees when we're wrapping up. I try not to get into my bees when the temperature's above 100 degrees.

Becky: In recent memory, because it's only fall right now, how was your robbing season and do you have any tips and tricks for beekeepers out there to not have your bees rob each other?

Duane: I haven't had a robbing problem, but if there's no flow going on, I've got sugar water on them. They seem to like the sugar water.

Becky: Just regular two-to-one syrup?

Duane: One-to-one.

Becky: One-to-one in the fall and you don't have any problem getting it.

Duane: And summer, whenever. We try to check the hives every two weeks except in the summer. When we check a hive and we notice that the food is going down, then we'll put sugar water out.

Becky: Ang, were you going to give us a hint?

Ang: It's so dependent on forage, isn't it? Like where you are and the density of bees that you're keeping in the place. I guess if I was thinking about it from more of a backyard beekeeper perspective, it might not be a place to have a lot of bees. When I visit bigger beekeepers they have smaller yards for honey production to keep the robbing down in those spaces. Entrance reducers are also great for that and keeping them on as consistently as possible with something that we do. Making sure you're not doing anything silly like mixing syrup right near your bee yard or keeping containers.

We are really diligent about keeping everything that's not being actively inspected closed and any materials that aren't actively used clothes to prevent any robbing because once you trigger it, it can just get out of hand within 20 minutes. Being mindful of behaviors that might be contributing to robbing would be my biggest suggestion and less bees in one place maybe.

Jay: I could echo what Ang's saying. We try not to actually have too many colonies in the same location for the robbing issue as well as the mite issue. If I have a colony with 40 hives in it, I generally have a higher mite count. The same thing goes with robbing. I have more issues with robbing when I just really populate the area. I will say, and I don't know if this is going to be a popular option or not, but it's a nuclear option. We did have some robbing this year and when we have out-of-control robbing, what we will do is take the top off of every single colony in the yard.

Becky: I've heard that.

Jay: It sounds chaotic. It sounds like, "Are you crazy?" In the end, everybody, all of a sudden, is exposed or vulnerable and it changes the behavior mindset. Now you're not leaving them open for that long but that's one of those absolute nuclear, like, "All right, everybody off," and then you pack them all back up and come back another day. It has worked pretty well for us. Another thing is we just take a bunch of grass and we'll shove it in the front door and limit it so much and then the grass generally over time will fall out and that'll be it.

Jeff: Opening the tops sounds like you have kids at home and you say everybody to your bedroom now. Just clear the room.

Jay: It's hardcore. It's like taking Lynyrd Skynyrd and turning it up to 11:00. It's just like let's go crazy. Just get it out there and fix it that way.

Becky: Jay, how long does that take to calm the apiary down or to stop the robbing?

Jay: Honestly, I don't have the guts to do it longer than about 10 minutes or so, because I just-- I've done it for 10 minutes and it seemed to really work well. I don't know. Maybe somebody out there has done it for longer but 10 is my max.

Becky: I have heard that before though. Boy, I'm chicken. I wouldn't try it.

Jay: This is crazy Tennesseans, sure.

Jeff: That's really interesting. I had never heard that. It almost sounds like it'd be in a list of those beekeeper things that you can try tagging to bring a swarm down, opening all the hives during a massive robbing incident but you say it works.

Bonnie: I've seen that too, Jay. Yes, it does work.

Jay: Everybody thinks you're nuts. You just got to smile and wave.

Becky: I think also it helps if all your colonies are the same size.

Jeff: Size.

Becky: They can all equally pick on each other if that makes sense or not.

Bonnie: I recommend to backyard beekeepers too, if they're putting the wet frames back on after extracting, don't pick the hottest part of the day or a really hot day when those smells are really going to travel. Wait till the very end of the day so they can work on it overnight, or if you see a weather forecast and you've got a cooler day coming up, do it then. In our area, even if you don't have a lot of bees in the same yard, there's so many backyard beekeepers that someone's going to find that on a hot day and it's going to create a problem or some bee is going to find that and it'll create a problem.

Jeff: I know a number of colonies per yard is probably a regional thing, but when you say don't keep a high number of colonies in a single yard, what is that high number? Is that 10? Is that 100?

Jay: For my operation, it's usually 8 to 10 is what we try and stay at. You have to be careful because you don't want 20 yards that are 10 miles from each other with only 10 hives. It kills your whole day in driving. You have to be selective. I say that the majority of our apiaries are about 10 hives and then we have some that go up to 20, but I really don't like to push it too much for adult colonies. Nucleus operations I have pushed a little more than that but in general, I like to go a little bit smaller for the mite counts.

Jeff: Ang, how many colonies do you keep a yard?

Ang: I guess like a nuc or a mating yard is much larger because we've got a lot of nucs and some adult colonies. Our outyards are 20 to 40. It depends on the time of year.

Jeff: We're quickly coming up to the end of our time. I'll just open it up last chance for anybody to ask questions of anybody else.

Bonnie: I'm just curious about when everyone wraps up their season for the year in these different locations. When are they basically put to bed for winter?

Duane: Never. I'm going to shut down for summer.

Jay: We wrap our colonies with bee cozies and generally put them to bed beginning of December.

Ang: We wrap our colonies right around Thanksgiving and start prepping them for winter about three weeks ago, so they're getting feeder rims after the nectar flow and making sure there's a liquid feeder in there so we can feed through the fall, but really wrapping them up all tidy is end of November.

Becky: Do you use the division board feeders?

Ang: No. I use frame feeders and then the rim is for patties in the early spring.

Becky: Isn't a frame feeder a division board? You've just replaced a frame with the feeders?

Ang: Yes, sorry.

Becky: I think it's just depending on where you're from. I think frame feeder and division are the same.

Ang: Different language.

Becky: I call them frame feeders but I think a lot of the country calls them division board. I was trying to use the proper word, but I'm with you, frame feeders. Let's just call them frame feeders.

Jeff: Feeders that go in the place of a frame. Folks, really enjoyed having you here today. I wish you the best of the winter season and perhaps have you back next spring if you're willing. We'll find out what your plans are, how you did through the winter, how your bees did through the winter, and your plans for this season of 2025. Thanks for joining us.

Becky: Thanks, everybody.

Duane: Thanks, Jeff.

Paul: Thanks Jay and all.

Bonnie: Thanks all for having us.

Ang: Thanks everyone.

Ang: Thanks, everyone. Take care.

Jay: Great to be here.

Bonnie: Nice seeing you all again.

Ang: Bye, Bonnie.

Jeff: I really enjoy talking to all our regional beekeepers. It's fun to hear what everyone's doing around the country.

Becky: There's like over 40 degrees difference between the lowest temperature when we recorded that and the highest. That's a big difference in beekeeping. It's so interesting to hear what everybody does and yet what they have in common and not.

Jeff: I really enjoyed it. I really want to thank all of our guests, Duane Combs, Paul Longwell, Jay Williams, Ang Roell, and Bonnie Morse. Great beekeepers around the country and look forward to having them back.

Becky: It's so generous for them to share their time with us and really tell us a lot about their operations. I always look forward to this.

Jeff: That about wraps it up for this episode. Before we go, I want to encourage our listeners to follow us and rate us five stars on Apple Podcast or wherever you download and stream the show. Even better, write a review and let other beekeepers looking for a new podcast know what you like. You can get there directly from our website by clicking on the reviews tab along the top of any webpage. We want to thank Betterbee and our regular longtime sponsors, Global Patties, Strong Microbials, and Northern Bee Books for their generous support. Finally, and most importantly, we want to thank you the Beekeeping Today podcast listener for joining us on this show. Feel free to leave us questions and comments on our website. We'd love to hear from you. Thanks a lot, everybody.

[00:50:02] [END OF AUDIO]