Bee Conspiracy with Author David Boito (S6, E19)

S6, E19 - Bee Conspiracy with Author David Boito

Rich Blohm: Hi, this is Rich Blohm from the Long Island Beekeepers Club. Welcome to the Beekeeping Today Podcast.

Jeff Ott: Welcome to Beekeeping Today Podcast, your source for beekeeping news, information, and entertainment presented by Betterbee. I'm Jeff Ott.

Becky Masterman: I'm Becky Masterman.

Kim Flottum: I'm Kim Flottum.

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Jeff: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Thanks a lot to Rich Blohm for that opening. We really appreciate him jumping in and then saying hi. Hey, if you've been listening to the last couple of episodes, you've noticed that we have a new guest co-host sitting in while Kim is out, Becky Masterman. Becky, thanks for agreeing to step in for Kim. Kim said he was happy that you chose to do so. And so there you go. You got the blessing.

Becky: That is good to hear because it is such an honor to sit in his chair. I will keep it warm for him.

Jeff: He will appreciate that for sure. You've been on the show a few times, I think four times as a guest, one way or the other, and then this is your third appearance as a guest co-host. For those who don't know you, can you give us a little bit about yourself?

Becky: I can. My bee history is in 1992 at the University of Minnesota, I had the honor of being hired as Dr. Marla Spivak's first undergraduate to help in the apiary. Then, the next summer, I started at a graduate program. Then several years later, I got a PhD out of it. There's a little bit of a bee dander allergy that kept me from bees for about 12 years. I was hired back by Marla in 2012, and I ran the bee squad for about 7 or 8 years, and did a lot of outreach. Actually, I just talked about Varroa a lot. I also worked with the public a lot. I also worked with the public and provide a lot of different ways for them to support honey bees and also all the other bees out there.

Jeff: I didn't know all of that. I'm especially glad you agreed to step in for Kim and help out. Should I be addressing you as Dr. Becky Masterman?

Becky: Please don't.

[laughter]

Becky: Not necessary, but thank you for the offer.

[laughter]

Jeff: I had a friend who was a doctor and had his PhD in English literature. He said he only used the doctor title when he made reservations at a restaurant.

Becky: I do it if I write a letter of recommendation for somebody, or let me now say, I don't usually use it.

Jeff: You've earned it, obviously. Use it where it gives you an advantage, such as airline tickets, hotel reservations.

Becky: I'd hate to be called out in a medical emergency though. [chuckles] If they need help with something, and all I can offer is, "How many mites do you have? Yes, I can tell you what to do with them."

Jeff: You did mention you had a bee dander allergy. I've not heard of that. I know Dr. Orley Taylor once told me that he used to study sulfur butterflies, and developed an allergic reaction to the scales of the sulfur butterfly. That's how he got into honey bees. Tell me about this. How does it present itself? If you don't mind me asking.

Becky: I don't mind at all. I've got a long version which we won't go into. To sum it up quickly, one, if you're an entomologist, which I am, you're very likely to become allergic to an insect. They're highly allergenic. My first allergy is actually cockroaches. Where I got my entomology degree, the building was filled with cockroaches. Four different species running amok. It wasn't in a colony. It was just a cockroach-infested building in an entomology department where nobody really cared. It turns out I had quite an allergy from that.

My immune system was on high alert. Every time I got in a colony, my eyes would swell. I wouldn't be able to breathe. It wasn't an anaphylactic reaction, but it was like really, really, really bad hay fever. My whole dissertation was written with the help of Benadryl. They sponsored it. It turns out I'm still allergic to cockroaches. When I came back, I was able to get in the colony and absolutely no adverse reactions, which is lovely. It went away-

Jeff: Wow.

Becky: -but I'm not the first entomologist to have to switch directions in life because of an allergy to something that they really like.

Jeff: That would be very difficult. That'd be like getting an allergic reaction to podcasting. [laughs]

Becky: See, there you go. [laughs] You imagine how hard it would be to do podcasting when you had a fist full of Kleenexes and you had to blow your nose every couple of minutes.

Jeff: That was really bad. I really appreciate you being here. It's a pleasure working with you. Coming up on today's show, do you read fiction?

Becky: I don't read enough, but I do like to read, yes, yes. I was that kid who I actually prefer to stay inside and read than go outside and play.

Jeff: Oh, you were one of those? No, no, no, just teasing.

Becky: [crosstalk] I was one of those. I liked the library.

Jeff: Good, because on today's show, we invited David Boito. We'll have to ask him how he pronounces his name. He has a new book that just came out. It's called Bee Conspiracy. It's a thriller. It takes place in Southern California, involves bees and other insects. I wanted to talk to him about why he wrote it. I thought our listeners might enjoy some winter reading while the bees are getting ready for spring.

Becky: I think it's a great idea. The twists and turns in this book, it's pretty exciting. It's pretty exciting to have a beekeeper be a hero too.

Jeff: There you go. It rarely happens. Usually, the quirky character that's off the side of a TV show or a movie or running down the street with a swarm chasing them.

Becky: Right. Although I'll say I think there's still a little quirky in the book, but I think that's the charm of it. [chuckles]

Jeff: That is beekeeping. Speaking of beekeeping, just real quick, we're towards the end of October, what should beekeepers be looking at doing with their bees? Is it time to just sit back and read a book the entire time? What are you doing with bees?

Becky: If you're in Minnesota or in a northern climate, we really like that oxalic acid dribble later in the season when the bees are clustered. As long as you're above 32 degrees, it's a great last control when you know that there's not a lot of brood in the colony, if any at all, so it's really effective. We start getting ready. We put a moisture board to absorb that colony's moisture over the season so they don't get wet when they're respiring. That's so important.

Then we wrap them with some insulation, either a black cardboard cover or a Bee Cosy that provides a little bit more higher R-factor for them. We're done feeding though. We can't really put any more food on them. There's not enough time for them to get that turned into honey.

Jeff: You can really run into some big problems if you put a bunch of sugar syrup on them late in the season. I have a friend who did that. It wasn't me.

Becky: You heard about it once, right?

Jeff: Yes, I heard about it once.

Becky: Unfortunately, that's the thing. We think we're doing good for them, and then we learn, oh, wait, it wasn't enough time, or it didn't help them like we thought it would.

Jeff: It must be good for them because they are drinking it. They're all there. Hey, thanks for joining. Look forward to working with you here in the upcoming episodes. We got a great lineup of shows coming up. Speaking of shows, let's get on with our interview with David. We'll ask him how to pronounce his last name. First, a quick word from our friends at Strong Microbials.

[music]

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Jeff: Hey, everybody, welcome to the show. Sitting across the virtual Beekeeping Today Podcast table I want to bring to you, David Boito. David, I appreciate you taking the time and your patience to be here today. Thanks for joining us.

David Boito: It's absolutely my pleasure. Thanks for having me, Jeff, and Becky.

Becky: Exciting to have you here. Can't wait to dig into this book. I'm excited.

David: Hopefully, won't get too technical with me.

Becky: It's not going to be a quiz. I guess maybe you could tell us the name of the book, but then we want to back up a little bit and find out something about you. I think our listeners are going to be really excited about the name of the book.

David: The name of the book is Bee Conspiracy.

Jeff: That's a catchy title for a beekeeper.

David: Thank you. It's a novel. Just to stipulate, it's a novel. It's completely fictional. That is the title.

Jeff: That's fascinating in and of itself. That's obviously why the book came to my attention. It deals with bees conspiracy.

David: Basically, Bee Conspiracy is about an LAPD detective, who's real street smart guy, a great indoorsman, a very eccentric US fish and wildlife entomologist, who typically specializes in protecting endangered butterfly species, but in this case, they team up to investigate the death of a man from a bee swarm or a swarm of bees that have stung him repeatedly. Duke, the detective, wants this to be open and shut and get back to his business.

Kelso the fish and wildlife agent, of course, he sees that there's something not right about this death. It's not mother nature. He suspects that the bees have actually been weaponized, and this is a case of murder. Duke reluctantly has to team with him as they investigate the insect clues to figure out what's really going on and therein lies the conspiracy.

Becky: David, this book is not just about bees, but it's filled with insects. Could you tell us about your background, how you got this idea? You must have a love of entomology somewhere there in your history.

David: Yes, I've always been very interested in insects and the insect world. My son, as a kid growing up, he's now a teenager, we shared that love and interest in insects and attended many insect fairs. One of the reasons I got the idea for the book was I was particularly interested in the idea of a forensic entomologist. Somebody who goes to a crime scene and figures out what happened, time of death, and so forth based on the insect clues at the crime scene or on the body.

That was the genesis for the idea. Then it morphed more as I found out more about beekeeping and colony collapse disorder has always been a concern the more I've heard about it. I thought that would be, at least for this particular novel, a more interesting path to take the characters through.

Becky: The readers are going to be excited about not just how you're weaving in the beekeeping, but you've got some messaging in this book. It's not just about solving a murder, but you are really trying to tell a story and you've got overarching themes about not just people and how they're afraid of insects, but also, what we're doing to the environment potentially.

David: I've always felt like insects get a bit of a bad rap and they're not necessarily to be feared. They're part of the ecosystem and they're not necessarily something to be killed immediately, and certainly in mass quantities with pesticides. I wanted to really bring that to the character of Kelso, who again, is pretty eccentric to most people I suppose. I really wanted to explore that character that really lives and feels the insect world and is very empathetic towards most insects. Obviously, some are less likable than others.

Jeff: You said he's eccentric, but what stands out that I thought was interesting was he drove around in a Winnebago or in a motorhome full of insects.

David: Yes, that's his insect lab.

Jeff: That's pretty cool. I've seen a lot of Winnebagos, they probably are insect labs, but not intentionally-

[laughter]

David: So have I.

Jeff: -but have one that actually has terrariums with insects in it, was fun. He even takes cues from a praying mantis that he has. I like how you wove those little details into the characters of the story.

David: Thank you. I realize it's a unique story. It's not technically horror per se. There are some scenes that are pretty scary. There's also that underlying element of comic repartee between the characters in Kelso and his eccentricity, and the fish out of water where he's in this big city where people, their first instinct is probably to kill or buy some insect pesticide to take care of whatever insect problem they're having. He's always looking for a solution where everybody can fulfill the best thing for the ecosystem.

Jeff: Both characters are fish out of water. Kelso and being in the city, and then also Duke, he's having to be rational and logical and methodical.

David: That's the idea.

Jeff: It's not just bash open the door and get the bad guy.

Becky: You also tie in the overall plot to some really good movies that involved bees in the past. You're in California. Are you tied to the film industry or the entertainment industry? Did that give you inspiration or was it the actual maybe watching of those films at one point?

David: To answer your question, yes, I'm in the film industry. I've written several screenplays as well. This idea was actually intended as a movie idea. I actually wrote a draft as a film script. It didn't really take off amongst the people that read it as a film script for whatever reason. I just was in love with the story, so I've recently, in the last few years, started taking some of my script ideas that haven't taken off again for whatever reason and decided to bring them to readers on the page. This was one of those. This is my second one as a novel.

Yes, in regards to the '70s, there was a period in the '70s there where these were really big villains, The Swarm. Irwin Allen, the famous disaster movie producer came out with The Swarm, which is, if you look at it, it's a goofy, goofy movie. but I suppose at the time, it scared a lot of people, and the whole idea of killer bees, I always thought that was unfair. I really wanted to show another side to that, where the bees aren't necessarily something to be feared. It's actually the humans that are much more fearful.

Jeff: This theme of being fearful of insects is a theme that you have in your book. It also mirrors reality as you're pointing out in popular culture in the movies and also even in recent life. Two years ago we had the "murder hornets". It's like, "Wait, why call them murder hornets? They're not murder hornets. The people, the poor bees that the wasp and stuff that they're chewing up are murdered maybe." It's the public fear of insects. I guess that's why beekeepers are always seen as being quirky characters in movies and literature because who else would stick their hands in a box of 60,000 venomous insects other than a beekeeper?

David: Thank God they do.

Jeff: I appreciate you as an author. Kelso might have his foibles, but he's not the quirky neighbor beekeeper with bees chasing him down the street or something like that. He is a decent person who cares about all insects. That's really good.

David: Thank you. I'm glad that came across.

Jeff: Let's take this quick opportunity for a break and we'll be right back with David Boito.

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Becky: As I said, I am an entomologist, and a lot of the people, and the ways you described entomologists in your book, they really do remind me of a lot of people I went to graduate school and a little bit of myself. I'm just wondering, do you know an entomologist, or were you able to just put it all together?

David: I know some biologists that have done experiments with fruit flies. My wife is a PhD in biology and while she was doing our postdoctoral fellowship, there were several of her colleagues that had a laboratories where they would use fruit flies in order to do various experiments. As you know the life of a fruit fly is short, and so it's ideal for using as a quick life force unit per se, however you want to describe it.

Becky: There are lots of generations-

David: Yes, the--

Becky: -where you can see change.

David: Yes, the generations are quick. I did have a chance to bring some questions to them and watch what they do in those labs. I do get the PhD doing research thing, which I'm sure a lot of entomologists are, I get that whole world. I wanted to definitely include that, the party, the white sheet party, and stuff like that. That's a quirky thing that PhD or postdoctoral fellows do. Then, of course, I've been to a few insect fairs and spoken to both beekeepers and some entomologists at places like that.

Becky: Have you suited up and gotten into a colony yet of honeybees?

David: I have not. I've not. If that's an invitation, I might have to take you up on that head-on.

Becky: I'm in Minnesota, but when people hear this podcast, you're going to have listeners in California. I think we might be able to get you an invitation.

Jeff: There might be a beekeeper too in California.

David: I'm sure-

Becky: [crosstalk] Just a couple.

David: -there's one or two, yes.

Becky: How many are there in January?

Jeff: Oh My Gosh.

David: You said it's in the spring is when they become active?

Becky: Beekeeping is different all over. In Minnesota, we're shutting down soon, but in California, you're going to still have a lot of activity with your weather, especially where you are.

Jeff: Starting at the end of this month and end of January, the bees from all over the country show up to Central Valley there for the almond pollinations and a lot of bees will be brought to California in December before snow closes the passes and whatnot, or beekeepers will wait till later in January to bring them over. It becomes the bee haven of the United States in January, February, or March.

David: Like the snowbirds.

Becky: A lot means almost 2 million colonies. All pollination roads lead to Northern California, those almond orchards. That would be a fun trip for you too.

Jeff: Yes, if you ever need to do some more research for your next.

Becky: There's got to be a sequel, right?

Jeff: Yes, is there going to be a sequel? That's the question.

David: I've been waiting to see how well the book sells, but I do have a couple of ideas in mind for a sequel. I'd love to get these characters together again for another mystery. It's in the planning stages. Of course, the more people that buy the book, that always helps.

Jeff: I can only imagine how happy both characters would be to have to work together again.

Becky: Oh, they were warming up towards the end. I don't want to give anything away, but I could help you write the second book because you can just see where they're all going. You set it up so beautifully.

David: Thank you. Becky, just real quick, not to reverse tables, but I see you're an entomologist that specializes in these.

Becky: Yes, yes. My degree is in entomology and I researched the neural anthology of honey bee hygienic behavior. I came across bees by first being interested in insects, and not as a kid, but I found them in college.

Jeff: Back to cockroaches again, right?

Becky: We could go there again. We won't go there. I think that's one of the reasons why your book was so interesting to me because I learned so many of the points that you brought up about all the different insects. You covered so many of them. I just fondly remember learning about those different either insects, or the different life histories, or you just incorporated a lot of really fun insect facts.

David: Wow. I'm happy to hear that.

Becky: Bees are my favorite, honey bees.

Jeff: Did your perception of beekeeping change during any of the research you did for the book?

David: Well, yes. What surprised me and concerned me is there are these technological ideas out there or inventions that actually do different types of de-list pollination, which I don't like the idea of that, the idea that you could either pollinate a tree with a drone. There's some places like in some countries where the pesticide use has been so rampant that they actually have to hand pollinate trees. That's stuff I didn't know. That was interesting at the same time depressing, but I definitely wanted to touch on those issues as I found those things out.

Becky: I think we should clarify. When you said drone, you didn't mean the male-

David: No.

Becky: -bee in the colony. Did you? [chuckles]

David: I mean a robotic device.

Becky: We're talking to a bunch of beekeepers here, so they immediately went to, "Wait, the boys are going to get the job now?"

David: No, I'm all for the regular kind of jobs.

Becky: Yes, but they don't do any work, David, especially pollination.

David: Right, right. They just go out and scout, I guess.

Jeff: [chuckles] Beekeepers sitting there, "Well, drones don't pollinate. No, no."

Becky: Yes, exactly. That's why I wanted to make sure it's the technology.

David: No, I'm talking about, you may or may not have seen, but there are some people working on small, tiny drones that pollinate trees.

Jeff: I think the industry is always going to be faced with issues like that, whether it be artificial honey.

David: I heard about that beeless honey. What is that? That's like sugar. What is that? High fructose corn syrup? What is that?

Jeff: It depends which one you're looking at. Some of them are theoretically made in the laboratory using the same enzymes as found in a bee gut to convert to sugars to create this artificial honey. That's like taking stem cells and creating a chicken mix sandwich or something like that. It's a bio-real or is it bio-fake? I don't know.

David: Exactly. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer all the real old stuff, the honey that lasts for how many thousands of years? They've found stuff in the pyramids mummified bodies, honey that's still good.

Becky: We technically don't know how long it can last because forever is everybody's answer because it'll granulate, and then as long as the moisture content is right, you're good to go.

Jeff: They always said the honey that they found with the Egyptians didn't taste very good, but I wanted-

Becky: I can't believe they tasted it.

Jeff: -to know who tasted it after pulling it off of the corpse.

David: Yes, right.

Becky: What did they expect?

Jeff: "You taste it. No, no, no, no, you taste it."

[laughter]

David: They drew straws, I guess.

Becky: Probably an entomologist. I'm just going to share that with you, who did it. [laughs]

David: The point is they didn't get sick, at least.

Jeff: You eat fried drone larvae, you eat it. Besides the technology and the encroachment of technology into the traditional beekeeping, were there any other things in your research that surprised you that you found even regarding the characters?

David: The whole idea of beelines and all that stuff and doing my research was fascinating to me. The idea that these bees will go back to their hive from miles away, that was something that I hadn't really been exposed to, and I just thought that was fascinating, their sense of direction, and so that I wanted to include. That's not necessarily a myth. As far as myths, just the idea of the bees don't want to sting you, they don't want to do that.

The idea of these killer bees, again, I wanted to delve into that. They're not trying to kill and maybe a more aggressive form of bee, the Africanized bees, but it's not like they're trying to kill, they're responding to a threat to their lives or what they perceived to be a threat. I just wanted to address those issues, but those were two things that I learned in the process of researching and talking to people.

Jeff: Beekeepers might get after you and say it's not aggressiveness, it's defensiveness.

David: 100%, yes. You're right. That's much better way to phrase it. Absolutely.

Jeff: What would you want your readers who are either beekeepers or may be interested in beekeeping, what would you want them to take away from this story?

David: For readers that are lay people, I would want them to take away that this idea of mass hysteria about, you're going to die because of bees traveling up from South America, whatever, I want to diffuse that for people, and give them an idea of what the truth and what the reality is as far as bees go. I would hope they would take away that. Of course, I would hope that they would enjoy the story. It's not meant to be taken too seriously. Obviously, there's some elements that are fun, but I take, perhaps a certain amount of creative license. I want them to have fun on the journey as far as beekeepers who already, I presume are not terribly scared of bees, I would want them--

Certainly, like with Becky and you, I really honored that you enjoyed the story and that you felt like it gave a fairly honorable depiction of people in the profession. I am so grateful for people that are really working to preserve biological bees. I do want to pay homage to those beekeepers, and hopefully, in some fashion, this book helps again, with the general public to educate them in some minor way, and enlighten them, and perhaps, and hopefully, entertain them as well.

Becky: I'll say in my notes, one of the things that just jumped out at me and you said it towards the end of the book, but you wrote literally, "Save the beekeeping industry." I was like, "We can all get behind that." Beekeepers and bees, they all need support from the public. I loved reading that line.

David: Absolutely. What you're doing with this podcast and what other organizations are doing is absolutely vital, I think, in this day and age where people tend to forget. Everything blends together on this planet. It's not us versus them per se.

Becky: We haven't given it all away because we could bring up more, but I think we should leave it to the readers to get the book and to learn more about it, but you do tie in a lot of different groups into the story and effort. There are lots of twists and turns. I do have to say there's a helicopter chase that I could see in the movies. It was fun to see you pull it all together and in the end always be so pro-insect, pro-bees, pro-beekeeping. That was really fun for me.

David: I'm really, really happy to hear that.

Jeff: David, thanks for joining us today. More success to you and if you're working on Bee Conspiracy 2, and you need to contact beekeepers there in California, let us know. We'd be happy to hook you up. You'll have a good bee day. I'm sure.

David: That would be great. I really appreciate that.

Becky: If you need to write in two really wise, funny podcast people, just an idea.

David: Okay. I'll keep that in mind.

[laughter]

Becky: It'll be Jeff and Kim.

Jeff: You see I was going to say it was Kim and Jim.

[laughter]

Jeff: All right, David. Thanks again for joining us. We look forward to the sequel. Best of luck with his book. Look for you in the future.

David: Thank you both so much for your time. I really do appreciate it.

Becky: Our pleasure. Thanks, David. Jeff, that was a Pro Bee book. It was pro-beneficial insect, pro-pollinator, pro-beekeeper, pretty exciting, right?

Jeff: It's fun to see in popular media, the beekeeper is not seen as the quirky character. I bristle when I that. I see the humor in it, but I also bristle at it and say, "Why does the beekeeper always have to be the ugly one, or the dopey one, or the cross-eyed neighbor? Here, the beekeeper is the hero or co-hero.

Becky: There are a few heroes, but yes, definitely the beekeeper turned out to be-- There was one bad beekeeper in the book, and not because they didn't treat Varroa, but there was. Because it is bee conspiracy, and they were weaponizing honeybees, but the hero of the book or one of the heroes was a beekeeper.

Jeff: Is, he didn't die.

Becky: Oh, no, you're right. No death of that beekeeper, and I'm waiting for the sequel.

Jeff: Maybe even by that statement, we're ruining the end of the book, but typically the hero of the book doesn't die, so we're safe.

Becky: We're safe. We are recording this on US soil and our heroes do not die at the end of our movies and stories. Very rarely, right?

Jeff: That's true, that's true. Except you haven't seen The Last IronMan. Have you?

Becky: I have not.

Jeff: Okay, then I won't destroy the ending for you. All right.

Becky: [crosstalk] Oh boy. Oh, no. My weekend plans.

Jeff: I don't know, so I've heard.

Becky: Really?

Jeff: So I've heard.

Becky: Okay. I think I'm going to go see my bees this weekend then instead of The Last Ironman.

Jeff: That is okay. That is good. The Bees as the foil or as the plot point in a book is fun to see. I was glad to have David on the show. I encourage our listeners, if you're looking for a book to buy for the winter reading, this is a book you'll have fun with, and I encourage you to get it.

Becky: Definitely Beekeepers in Hollywood. It's pretty exciting.

Jeff: That about wraps it up for this episode. Before we go, I want to encourage our listeners to rate us five stars on Apple Podcast or wherever you download and stream the show. Even better, write a review and let other beekeepers looking for a new podcast know what you like. You can get there directly from our website by clicking on the reviews along the top of any webpage.

We want to thank our regular episode sponsors Global Patties, Strong Microbials, and especially Betterbee for their longtime support of this podcast. Thanks to Northern Bee Books for their generous support. Finally, and most importantly, we want to thank you, the Beekeeping Today Podcast listener for joining us on this show. Feel free to leave us questions or comments, and leave a comment section under each episode on the website. We'd love to hear from you. Thanks a lot, everybody.

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